After President Joe Biden’s final Quad meeting last weekend, Miles Yu gives some background on the multilateral group of nations (which includes the United States, Japan, India, and Australia) and explains its importance in defining and stabilizing the Indo-Pacific. Next, we cover the continued rise of violent xenophobia inside China in light of another stabbing and death, this time of a 10-year-old Japanese schoolboy. Japanese officials, along with Japanese companies in China, are now clearly indicating that they are fed up with the Chinese Communist Party’s culture of fear. Finally, the US Commerce Department officially proposed a new ban on Chinese-made car parts, justifying the move not on economics but national security.
China Insider is a weekly podcast project from 91 Institute’s China Center, hosted by Miles Yu, who provides weekly news that mainstream American outlets often miss, as well as in-depth commentary and analysis on the China challenge and the free world’s future.
Event Transcript
This transcription is automatically generated and edited lightly for accuracy. Please excuse any errors.
Miles Yu:
Welcome to China Insider, a podcast from the 91 Institute's China Center. I am Miles Yu, senior fellow and director of the China Center. Join me each week for our analysis of the major events concerning China, China threat, and their implications to the US and beyond.
Phil Hegseth:
It is Tuesday, September 24th, and I'm Phil Hegseth alongside resident expert Miles Yu. And today we start with President Biden's final meeting last weekend with the Quad. Miles gives us some background on the multilateral group of nations and its importance in defining and bringing order to the Indo-Pacific. He then covers exactly how the next administration should handle this security counterweight to China in the future. Next, we come back yet again to one of the unfortunate themes from the show this summer, and that's the rise of violent xenophobia inside China. In the latest heinous attack, a 44-year-old man stabbed and killed a 10-year-old Japanese boy outside of his school. As usual, the Chinese government claims it's an isolated incident, but the resounding response from the Japanese government as well as Japanese companies inside China is that they're fed up with the CCP’s culture of xenophobic fear. And we close with the latest act on the part of the US in the long running US-China trade war. When the US Commerce Department officially proposed a new ban on Chinese made car parts citing not economics, but rather national security. Miles details why it's important to keep Americans cars free of malicious Chinese tech. All right, good morning, Miles. You got your coffee?
Miles Yu:
I don't drink coffee, but I do drink Diet Coke, but I have enough caffeine to go on.
Phil Hegseth:
There we go. Well, it's good to see you.
Miles Yu:
Good to see you too.
Phil Hegseth:
We'll jump in. We'll start this episode with a meeting this last weekend of the Quad. It is Biden's final meeting during his presidency where he hosted the leaders of Australia, India, and Japan. Miles, could you give us a little bit of background to the Quad and what the president was trying to accomplish here in his last meeting and what his legacy in the Quad will be?
Miles Yu:
Well, Quad is the brainchild of the former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. It's a short acronym for Quadrilateral Security Dialogue that would include Japan, United States, Australia, and India. It started in 2007 and each year they have leadership summits. Normally the president or prime minister would attend. And another second layer of that is of course is a foreign policy chief, that is foreign ministers, in the United States, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo would be the person when he was in office. I was actually with him in one of Quad meetings in Tokyo. So it is been a very significant security dialogue. It's morphing into something much bigger than just a dialogue. The only hiccup was in 2008, the former, then Prime Minister of Australia, Kevin Rudd, who claimed that he's a China expert and he decided that he didn't want to upset China. So he basically withdrew from Quad. And then after that, Australia rejoined. Incidentally, the same person who withdrew from Quad, Mr. Kevin Rudd is now the Australian ambassador to the United States now living in Washington DC, from where actually 91 Institute is.
Phil Hegseth:
It's been important to the power balance in the region. But in the past, we've talked about whether there is a possibility of a NATO style alliance or expansion into Southeast Asia. Could the Quad be a part of that conversation or even a catalyst or a foundation for building something like that?
Miles Yu:
Absolutely. I mean, I think Quad has a long way to go to become a NATO like security alliance with the mutual defense arrangements. But the impetus is there. The impetus was all the world countries facing the same problem that is the same threat from China. So, we all feel the common threat. Common threat is the foundation for common defense. So, I would say Quad is moving toward that in that direction, just like NATO, actually, the Quad has all the major elements of a quasi-security alliance. It has regular meetings, and it has some kind of agreed agenda each year. And of course, it also has this military arm of the Quad that is mostly the Indian sponsored annual quad naval exercise called Malabar, which is really big in the [Ok.], normally take place in the Bay of Bengal and sometimes goes beyond. So that is significant. China called it the Asian NATO, which basically is the attack word. India said, we don't have the NATO mentality, we only have the national security mentality. The United States, of course, is very happy to see this happening. Because the United States obviously is the backbone of the Asian security because our commitment to keep peace and prosperity in Asia Pacific is very, very strong and consistent. Now, I use the phrase Asian Pacific, that actually is passe, it's an old word. One of the major contributions of the Quad dialogues over the years is to redefine the security challenge in this large swath of Asia and the Pacific region. So we don't call it Asia Pacific anymore. Instead because of Quad and its contribution, it's conceptual redefinition. We now usually call this Indo-Pacific region.
Phil Hegseth:
Right, right. Yeah.
Miles Yu:
So now it's Indo-Pacific. And that's really important because it indicates that the security challenges in the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean, they're pretty much the same. It's all from China. And because of that, we actually readjust the naming of one of our key, probably most important, combatant commands. That is we used to have a Pacific command, based in Hawaii. We call it now the Indo-Pacific command, INDOPACOM.
Phil Hegseth:
Yep. Terminology matters here and distinctions matter. And there is already a military operation arm of this. This last weekend they announced joint Coast Guard operations, spending time on US Coast Guard vessels. So there's already an arm to it. It would just be enhanced in that way. But if there's one awkward participant in this group, I think it is India, in that they're also a part of BRICS. How does India balance their relationship with China, but also participation in the Quad and where does it get awkward?
Miles Yu:
I think India is a very interesting country with a very unique foreign policy stand. It has a strong legacy of non-alignment policy coming out of the Cold War. India does not want to take side with all the superpowers, but it insisted on its own independence, which is all fine. But then India does share common security concerns with all the other members of the Quad. That is China. That is why I think the India on this issue within the Quad, India's pretty sort of very much aware and is very actively participating in the Quad agenda. I have no question about that. Now, India obviously is a member of BRICS, that is the China dominated economic, and quasi, I wouldn't call it security, mostly economic and the geopolitical alliance, that consists of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. And then also don't forget, India’s beguiling foreign policy stand also has sort of bamboozled Chinese leadership in a way that China believed precisely because India is a independently minded country. So they believe India is also anti-west, anti-Western sentiment of course, was China's obsession. So China actively pushed India and allow India to join China dominated security alliance in Central Asia area. It's called the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, the SEO. So now India is a member of that too. But this is kind of like Frankenstein for China because India as much as it has been independent minded with the West, India's antagonism toward China is much, much stronger. China is doing all the foolish things thinking about other country in a very incorrect way. That's the failure of China's diplomacy.
Phil Hegseth:
So one last thing. This was the final meeting for President Biden of the Quad, but barring any surprises, the Quad will carry on. And so we've got a new administration coming in to either side. What would you say to an incoming administration about the importance of the Quad and the purpose that it should serve?
Miles Yu:
Oh, it's very, very important because United States obviously is a global power. In American domains, we actually are a superpower. But China is coming up very, very closely challenging that position. India understands that, Australia understands that, Japan certainly understands that. I think in this last Quad meeting, which was held in the home of President Biden in Delaware, are two major issues that were fresh and urgent on the minds of the leaders attending. One is how to push back against China's absolutely provocative and cantankerous maritime aggression in the South China Sea in particular.
Phil Hegseth:
Yeah, we've covered a lot of it.
Miles Yu:
This deals with basically law enforcement issue on the high seas. Quad is the only security framework in this region, in the Indo-Pacific region that has a multilateral flavor. United States has very strong security arrangement with Japan, South Korea and the Philippines and India as well to a certain degree, but they're all bilateral. Now, this Quad is the only multilateral arrangement. So I think the four leaders together, to talk about China's maritime aggression in this domain is very important. So the result of this is the four countries agree to enhance maritime law enforcement through their coast guards, and that's very significant, I think the first time I've heard.
Phil Hegseth:
Yeah, that's great.
Miles Yu:
So the second issue is how to figure out a way to push back against China's illegal fishing. Now, illegal fishing or in the legalist way is called IUU, which stands for illegal unreported and unregulated fishing. China is by far the largest, most egregious violator of IUU fishing. China has the world’s largest fishing fleet. It has a fleet of about 3000 fishing ships. Over two thirds of them are involved in IUU. This is according to International Fishing Risk Index, which has some kind of US sponsorship out of that. Last year, in 2023, out of 153 countries, China tops the IUU violations. It is called normally, that China is the pariah of world oceans. China's IUU fishing takes place not just in the Pacific, not just in Indian ocean, but also in the Atlantic, West Africa, South America. China's illegal fishing is everywhere. One of the most egregious IUU violation conducted by China's fishing fleet is around the world treasure of Galapagos Islands, which belong to Ecuador. So China basically send fishing fleet over there to fish and kill a lot of very precious ocean resources over there. Some of the fish, some of the very rare species over there. So this is basically an international rogue nation when it comes to IUU.
Phil Hegseth:
Yeah, the Galapagos are not exactly in the South China Sea. It's actually much closer to home than anything we usually talk about.
Miles Yu:
Yeah. So this is not just a simple issue of illegally obtaining other people's ocean and maritime assets. It also involves violation of sovereignty, violation of international law. And China's doing this with a very big sense of swagger. So that's one of the issues. Also in Delaware, in this Quad conference, the Quad will continue simply because the common threat from China will continue.
Phil Hegseth:
Well put. So moving on to our second topic is a continued storyline of this summer, which is violent xenophobia inside China. This time it's the death of a 10-year-old Japanese boy outside of a Japanese school. I won't go into all the details, but Miles, the Chinese government is already calling this an isolated incident. Our coverage alone just this summer, is evidence that it very much is not. So will you give us a little bit of background on what happened here, why it's not an isolated incident, and then we'll get into some of the reactions.
Miles Yu:
Last week, a 10-year-old Japanese boy, as you mentioned, was stabbed by a crazed criminal, a 44-year-old Chinese man in Shenzhen, in southern China, in the belly. And then the 10-year-old boy died in the hospital soon after that. This sent a shockwave throughout Japan. Now, one thing you have to understand that, China is extremely unpopular in Japan already due to this accumulated pattern of behavior against the Japanese. China's unfavorable rating in Japan, poll after poll, is in the low 90%. [Yeah.] And on top of that, you have this incident. This is against the innocent 10-year-old boy. So the nation is absolutely furious about this. Prime Minister Kishida called this incident extremely despicable. [Yeah.]
He dispatched the deputy foreign minister of Japan to go to China to have done serious talk with the Chinese officials. Japanese companies, many of them have already withdrawn from China due to xenophobic and unfair trade and company incorporation discrimination against Japanese companies. So some of the big ones still remain in China. And in that degree, Toshiba, Toyota and Panasonic and all those companies send immediate caution for its employees in China and ask them to take extra measure for their own safety. And the Panasonic even provided employees in China free one-way ticket back to Japan if they want.
Phil Hegseth:
Yeah, that's wild.
Miles Yu:
Chinese foreign ministry, of course, called this a isolated incident. It's not isolated. In June, you got an attempted stabbing by a Chinese man and the school bus full of Japanese children. Unfortunately, one of the Chinese nationals, a lady who was on the bus and tried to stop them and she was killed instead by this stabbing incident. And before also in June, you got to understand that four Americans in Jilin province were stabbed by a Chinese man. All this points to, this sort of state ideology, this state instigated xenophobia against China's state enemies or perceived state enemies. Normally, the top target of China's propaganda of xenophobia are Americans first, and then Japanese, and now the Ukrainians. Because the Ukrainians were on the wrong side of history according to Chinese state ideology. China is now supporting Russia hundred percent. So we have this incident of Ukrainian performers in Shanghai, of all places. She was performing on stage and a Chinese audience just stormed the stage and grabbed her microphone, using all kinds of insult against her because she claimed that she was Ukrainian. So this is the old, very screwed, and distorted and twisted the nation. This all tied to state ideology. Which brings me to the question I know you're going to ask me, who is really culpable here?
Phil Hegseth:
Right? Is it the 44-year-old man who did it, or is there more going on here?
Miles Yu:
Yes, he definitely committed a hate crime. [Of course, of course.] He was the perpetrator. But what about the instigators and the creator of the hate crime? And that's basically what come to the state and government.
Phil Hegseth:
Yeah.
Miles Yu:
Last century we had two military tribunals. One is in Nuremberg and the other one is in Tokyo. Put the war criminals, the top leaders of the Nazi regime and Japanese militaristic regime on trial. In those tribunals, the world set a precedent, that is, we must hold the top leaders culpable for state instigated and sponsored hate crimes. And that should be the model here too.
Phil Hegseth:
Oh, interesting. Yeah.
Miles Yu:
Because the Chinese Communist Party has total control of all the access to information, to the interpretation of information. So that's why Chinese government is putting out this anti-American, anti-Japanese propaganda, day in and day out, creating an environment where hate crimes against Americans and Japanese will be considered as a corollary to Chinese state propaganda. In many cases, out of international outrage, they arrested the perpetrators, but then those people, those criminals were normally held as heroes by the large swath of the Chinese population. It's all very, very strange. So I will say all these incidents, these hate crimes committed in China against the Americans, the Japanese and other nationals Chinese don't like, is tied to state ideology of geopolitics. Ultimately, when China's free and democratic, those leaders who did such then, should be put on trial.
Phil Hegseth:
Just to paint a picture here of the culture of fear that has been created, according to the BBC, some Japanese schools have contacted parents, talking to them, they've canceled activities. They've even warned against speaking Japanese loudly in public. That's a level of impacting your life that is not an isolated incident, and the Japanese government is coming out and saying, Hey, how are you going to defend our citizens? But that's an oxymoron when you're saying, how are you going to defend us, when the Chinese government is the party culpable, as you're explaining, that is creating this culture of fear. How do these governments move forward? The Japanese government and the Chinese government?
Miles Yu:
Well, the Japanese government this time is absolutely had it. I mean, they were fed up.
Phil Hegseth:
Yeah, you can tell this has changed things.
Miles Yu:
Yeah. China basically right now, they realize this is a problem. So they, the foreign ministry, actually make the stunning announcement just a few hours ago. They're going to stop protesting the Japanese release of the Fukushima treated nuclear water. China is the only country that is making this big fuss out of this. The United Nations, all the major countries, tested meticulously for the level of the contamination in the treated water, and they said, everything is perfectly safe to be released into the ocean. After this very serious treatment [Yeah], China said, no, no, no. This is irresponsible, Japanese committed a crime, this is going to contaminate all the fish in the Japanese territorial waters. And Chinese government called the Japanese government basically criminal. In the meantime, Chinese fishing fleet are fishing illegally in the same territory that China said Japanese treated nuclear wastewater had been contaminated. So this is all hypocrisy. So China suddenly say, oh, okay, we're going to stop protesting, you're okay now. China also banned Japanese seafood import. This is a major blow [Right. Right.] to a lot of the Japanese seafood industry people. So because of the incident in China, nowadays it is getting a little scary. So they announced a few hours ago that they're going to resume the Japanese import of seafood. So this is a government basically, it is not only sort of xenophobic, it is also coward. It's a bully.
Phil Hegseth:
Well, that has nothing to do with the stabbing of a boy and the culture of fear that it creates to make that happen. The fish coming in doesn't change that. That's a concession to say, “Hey, be quiet about this for now.”
Miles Yu:
Yeah, basically China wants to create the incidents, create nonissues, and make the big issues so they have some bargaining chips. [Right.] So that's basically what it is.
Phil Hegseth:
So our final topic is the continued trade war between the US and China, with the US proposing new bans on Chinese auto parts that are, it's seen as a national security move really. So Miles, why don't you give us some background on these new tariffs or bans that are being considered and how it would impact consumers?
Miles Yu:
Well, US is already imposed a hundred percent tariff on Chinese cheap electronic vehicles in the United States. EU is following suit, and Japan is doing that too. Canada is also doing exactly what US has been doing on that front, but this time is different. So Monday, yesterday, September 23rd, the US Department of Commerce issue a statement saying that out of national security concern, the US state is considering banning cars using Chinese manufactured software, particularly positioning system and guidance system road-maps, because the Chinese software were linked to the Chinese intelligence, Chinese national security apparatuses, and this is extremely dangerous to American citizens. That has been the consistent message out of the US government, particularly Secretary of Commerce, Gina Raimondo. She said, again and again, we will never allow Chinese made vehicles with the Chinese software, that has internet connection, controlled by Beijing, to run all over the United States. That's a number one national security concern. She's totally right on that, and I think considering China is the world's number one hacker. The United States’ major data systems have been hacked by Chinese state actors over the years. So the policy is more or less a reflection of reality.
Phil Hegseth:
Yeah, it's the kind of thing that doesn't bite you until it needs to. It's just a harmless car until they press the switch at the right time.
Miles Yu:
Absolutely, right. Cars is as American as American football. Cars is as important to the United States as a Texas steak because the American has a car culture. Everyone spends the enormous amount of time in cars. Now, if we use the Chinese manufacturer vehicles connected with Chinese software with the servers in China, and the Chinese government would have the access and control even to what we do in the car, how we drive, and in a time of national security crisis that could basically paralyze the entire nation very, very quickly. So that's why this is an extremely important issue. I think this is just the beginning of the national dialogue of the degree to which China's commerce affects Americans national security and also affects everybody's safety in this country.
Phil Hegseth:
Yeah. Well, and that was going to be my follow-up, and we can close this way again with new administrations coming in. Do you expect the trade war with China to continue, intensify, calm down in new administrations?
Miles Yu:
I don't see any reason for the trade war to discontinue, let me put it that way. Because if you look at the two candidates, both sides have been competing for who is actually tougher on China, particularly trade. Now, tariff is not the ideal approach in a free trade system. [Right.] But we're not in a totally free trade system. China is not a market economy. Yet China has the benefit and a full membership of international free trade system. So that is the reality. We have to conduct our economic and trade policy based on that reality. It's not ideal, but I think a tariff is necessary for self-preservation, and particularly to protect the Americans manufacturer base. You cannot really survive if China use enormous state subsidies to promote its own company, to kill American competitors with China. That’s just suicidal. So for those people who say tariff is terrible, yes, it's terrible, but it is probably a necessary evil we have to really adopt.
Phil Hegseth:
I love that. It's a great way to close. Thanks as always Miles for covering these great topics. We'll see you for three more next week.
Miles Yu:
Alright, thank you Phil. Thank you for listening to this episode of China Insider. I'd also like to thank our executive producer, Philip Hegseth, who works tirelessly and professionally behind the scenes for every episode, to make sure we deliver the best quality podcast to you, the listeners, if you enjoy the show, please spread the word. For Chinese listeners, please check our monthly review and analysis episode in Chinese. We'll see you next time.